2021-22 Coaches Shows with Isaac Brown

[Kel Varnsen]

1. Jacksonville State, a game where we trailed at half-time and struggled to make it back. Throw team chemistry out the window, and we don't have a chance to win with a buzzer beater
2. South Alabama, a tie game at half where we trailed 38-32 at 16:41 and 56-54 at 4:53. Another game where I think we came back partially due committed players that trusted the system.
3. Arizona, a game we lost
4. UNLV, another game we trailed at half-time and needed late plays and not collapsing to win.
5. KSU, a game we lost
6. OSU, a game where we had to come back in the 2nd half.
7. North Texas

In any of those games, I feel that a Marshall team without bad team chemistry could have collapsed and bickered where Brown's teams stayed solid and hopeful. Marshall's teams had a lot of positives, but especially the later teams struggled with adversity. In Marshall's last 3 seasons, his teams went 9-22 when behind at half-time by my count and a 8-8 record in games within one possession. I remember games like the 48-80 loss to OSU in 2019, the 58-71 loss to Louisiana Tech, the 41-54 loss to USF, and the 46-73 loss to Houston. Just absolute collapses. We've had many opportunities to crumble this season, and I've only really seen it happen in this game.

What a ridiculous take. For every past example where a Marshall team "crumbled" (and I find it coincidental that you only include the post-Landry teams), I can give you two where they faced adversity and won. To be fair, I'll use just Marshall's last two years where we got off to a bad start or the game hung in the balance late.

Neutral vs. Providence 18-19 - W 83-80
Home vs. Southern Miss 18-19 - W 63-60
Home vs. UConn 18-19 - W 65-63
AAC Tournament vs. Temple 18-19 - W 80-74
NIT @ Furman 18-19 - W 76-70
Home vs. OU 19-20 - W 80-75
Away @ UConn 19-20 - W 89-86
Away @ SMU 19-20 - W 66-62

This doesn't even have anything to do with IB. Your take is just so absurd.

The argument doesn't stand up to the line of reasoning that says we would have won 1 or more of those 3 losses with Marshall as coach just as easily.

[ShockingButTrue]

If Gregg Marshall was the coach of this particular team, I think there is a real possibility of this team having 7 losses right now.

That's definitely not a leap. The 7 losses:

Fernandez
Burton
Sherfield
The Process (maybe a win there)
D. Gordon
R. Brown
C.J. Keyser (he's still playing I believe)

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

That's definitely not a leap. The 7 losses:

Fernandez
Burton
Sherfield
The Process (maybe a win there)
D. Gordon
R. Brown
C.J. Keyser (he's still playing I believe)

How many have improved their situation and / or are playing on better teams or with better programs?

[CBB_Fan]

What a ridiculous take. For every past example where a Marshall team "crumbled" (and I find it coincidental that you only include the post-Landry teams), I can give you two where they faced adversity and won. To be fair, I'll use just Marshall's last two years where we got off to a bad start or the game hung in the balance late.

1. The timespan I mentioned includes the Landry years
2. The worst blowouts were examples, but the overall 8-22 record means you literally cannot counter each loss with a win

And frankly, more than that backs this up. Go and rewatch any of the games I mentioned, and watch our game this year versus Arizona. The body language is completely different. I don't think it is any coincidence that the players with the worst looks were those that had most tension with Marshall: Shaq, Reeves, Stevenson, etc. Isaac Brown has plenty of chances to screw up and ruin his welcome here, but we aren't seeing 30 point losses. We aren't losing our home opener buy game. Or to put it another way, Isaac Brown has lost by double digits three times counting this game, Gregg Marshall lost eight games by that margin in 2018-2019 alone.

[WuDrWu]

1. The timespan I mentioned includes the Landry years
2. The worst blowouts were examples, but the overall 8-22 record means you literally cannot counter each loss with a win

And frankly, more than that backs this up. Go and rewatch any of the games I mentioned, and watch our game this year versus Arizona. The body language is completely different. I don't think it is any coincidence that the players with the worst looks were those that had most tension with Marshall: Shaq, Reeves, Stevenson, etc. Isaac Brown has plenty of chances to screw up and ruin his welcome here, but we aren't seeing 30 point losses. We aren't losing our home opener buy game. Or to put it another way, Isaac Brown has lost by double digits three times counting this game, Gregg Marshall lost eight games by that margin in 2018-2019 alone.

What?

[ShockerFever]

You have to have the ball in your hands to take good shots.

I understand you're still a simp for Gregg, so I don't expect you to be happy regardless of what he said in this show.

The “shots” that are being thrown up are essentially turnovers as they have little chance of going in. That point would’ve made more sense than your head-buried-in-sand approach.

Simp for Gregg? Sure I guess. I kinda liked winning.

[ShockerFever]

If Gregg Marshall was the coach of this particular team, I think there is a real possibility of this team having 7 losses right now. The upside of a player's coach is that our players have kept their composure in a lot of games and fought back, because they believed in themselves and the coach. Say what you will about Gregg's last few years here, but I think it is clear that his coaching style created terrible off-court chemistry and made players outright quit on the program.

That said, the downside to a player's coach is also obvious: players can get away with a lot. They might bring A+ effort and keep their heads high when the going gets rough, but they'll also made the same mistakes. High energy is why we've held every opponent under 1 point per possession. Mistakes are why we've been terrible on the other end of the floor. There may be a real cap to how much of our player's potential we will get to see. This team absolutely does not let the game come easily to them.

LMFAO

[ShockerFever]

Not saying IB has lit the college hoops trail on fire this year, but I feel like everyone only chooses to remember Marshall’s good times now. 2 of his last 3 seasons I was pretty disappointed in how the team shook out.

Sure they jumped conferences but the AAC wasn’t so much better that they should’ve gone from a top 15 defense to outside the top 100 in 17-18. And a first round exit with that team was an abject failure.

18-19 I have nothing to complain about, thought that was one of his best coaching jobs of his career to get what he did out of that team.

And 19-20, I know everyone loves to blast ES but Marshall has to wear some of the blame for how that team fell apart. They were pretty miserable on offense too and ran a ton of ball screens that went nowhere.

And that’s without mentioning that aside from demeanor, schematically IB & Gregg are very similar as coaches, IB is running just about all of the same stuff on offense & their defensive scheme has largely not changed either.

None of this is to say Gregg wasn’t a great coach, & I was pretty optimistic going into last year compared to what people seemed to expect from WSU. Just feels like everyone only focuses on all his successes as a coach when I would be pretty unsurprised if this roster was still struggling a lot on offense under him, even if not quite THIS bad.

His worst year in his last 10 years was an NIT semifinal appearance. Let’s see what happens with this team this year.

[ShockerFever]

I'm trying NOT to read into this the sentiment that a 0-20 run is the best we could expect and no changes were necessary other than encourage the players to "make shots" and encourage the staff to recruit bigger guys. I don't give HCIB a pass on that. He needs to step up and show he can coach who he has. If I WERE to believe an 0-20 run against NT, even under difficult circumstances, is the best we can hope for, it's gonna be a looong season.

There are some weird posters on the excuse train that have much lower expectations for this program now. Kinda sad.

[ShockerFever]

1. The timespan I mentioned includes the Landry years
2. The worst blowouts were examples, but the overall 8-22 record means you literally cannot counter each loss with a win

And frankly, more than that backs this up. Go and rewatch any of the games I mentioned, and watch our game this year versus Arizona. The body language is completely different. I don't think it is any coincidence that the players with the worst looks were those that had most tension with Marshall: Shaq, Reeves, Stevenson, etc. Isaac Brown has plenty of chances to screw up and ruin his welcome here, but we aren't seeing 30 point losses. We aren't losing our home opener buy game. Or to put it another way, Isaac Brown has lost by double digits three times counting this game, Gregg Marshall lost eight games by that margin in 2018-2019 alone.

Take the L and move on. This won’t end well for you otherwise.

[shockerfan]

I will say. I had been trying to be optimistic and keep a general wait-and-see mentality.

I even lowered my expectations, but those lower expectations are starting to feel like they still might be too high.

I am not gonna do anything crazy or totally give up on the team (I am a ride or die fan)....but I don't have too many warm fuzzies about Brown right now. Record be damned. It is deeper than the record.

[Kel Varnsen]

The timespan I mentioned includes the Landry years

The records you mentioned might have but the games did not. The USF, La Tech, and OU losses were in 18-19 and the Houston loss was in 19-20.

The worst blowouts were examples, but the overall 8-22 record means you literally cannot counter each loss with a win.

Incorrect. Your 8-22 record was in games we were trailing at halftime...when you trail a game at halftime you are statistically less likely to win the game. No matter who the coach is. The 8-8 record by GM in one possession games is average and statistics show that teams don't have a "clutch gene" that allows them to be better in close games. Winning close games against inferior teams typically means you're not that good and your luck will run out. We have found that out with last year's team (supposedly great at winning close games) and this year's team (not so much), both coached by IB and with a very similar roster. Our luck has run out.

And frankly, more than that backs this up. Go and rewatch any of the games I mentioned, and watch our game this year versus Arizona. The body language is completely different. I don't think it is any coincidence that the players with the worst looks were those that had most tension with Marshall: Shaq, Reeves, Stevenson, etc. Isaac Brown has plenty of chances to screw up and ruin his welcome here, but we aren't seeing 30 point losses. We aren't losing our home opener buy game. Or to put it another way, Isaac Brown has lost by double digits three times counting this game, Gregg Marshall lost eight games by that margin in 2018-2019 alone.

I watched the teams with Shaq and Reaves win grind-it-out games against Marquette, at Cincy (as good of a road win as anyone in the country had that year), at Tulsa, at Baylor, at Oklahoma State, and came back from a 17 point deficit in the second half against Cal in 17-18. Your evaluation of "body language" sure didn't ring true in those games. Or does it only apply to the games that support your reasoning?

I'll also add that last year's team was the worst WSU team per KenPom and Torvik since Marshall's second year in 08-09. This team is even worse in both.

[ShockingButTrue]

I'll also add that last year's team was the worst WSU team per KenPom and Torvik since Marshall's second year in 08-09. This team is even worse in both.

Good point. Marshall's 09 team most probably wouldn't have won the AAC crown last year, as HCIB did.

[Ashockalypse]

1. The timespan I mentioned includes the Landry years
2. The worst blowouts were examples, but the overall 8-22 record means you literally cannot counter each loss with a win

And frankly, more than that backs this up. Go and rewatch any of the games I mentioned, and watch our game this year versus Arizona. The body language is completely different. I don't think it is any coincidence that the players with the worst looks were those that had most tension with Marshall: Shaq, Reeves, Stevenson, etc. Isaac Brown has plenty of chances to screw up and ruin his welcome here, but we aren't seeing 30 point losses. We aren't losing our home opener buy game. Or to put it another way, Isaac Brown has lost by double digits three times counting this game, Gregg Marshall lost eight games by that margin in 2018-2019 alone.

You are just a fool to make this argument. We have played worse in some of these wins than in 3GS very few big losses. This is like arguing IB is better than John Wooden because he won COY in the Covid year and Wooden didn’t win the Natty in his last year—utterly &$@!ing STUPID!

[Kel Varnsen]

Good point. Marshall's 09 team most probably wouldn't have won the AAC crown last year, as HCIB did.

Nice, but I wasn't comparing IB's teams to that team. I was comparing IB's teams to each Marshall team after that.